KillingTimeItself

The words you are looking for are that Fahrenheit is more precise. But it’s not as there are an infinity of numbers between any two integers.

yeah and you could make a temperature scale call it fuckwit and make water freeze at -1, and water room temperature at 0, and then make it boil at 1. I don’t know why you would want to do that though.

My thermometer at work which I use for health and safety stuff reports temperature to two decimal places. Had we wanted more precision we could have gone with twenty decimal places. In too big or too small metric units we use multipliers - metres are too small for long distances so we use kilometres (thousands of metres), metres are too big for construction so we use millimetres (thousandths of metres)

well you wouldn’t go with twenty decimal spaces because after you get past about 4 decimals, it starts to become inconsequential, and you should really just use sci no anyway.

Where Celcius degrees are too big, people (scientists, since whole degrees or a single decimal is enough for everyone else) use milikelvins

fascinating that you propose this, because this is literally the opposite of what i said lol.

this is true, we should just move to florida to engage in “voting fraud”

texas and florida are two sides of the same coin i think…

my main point was that accuracy matters a lot less with fahrenheit, because it’s so much broader. a range of about 10 degrees fahrenheit is the average subjectively experienced “change” in temperature, at least on the higher end, where there’s more difference between the individual numbers. On the cold side there’s a lot less variance as it meets at about -40 in both systems.

In any case neither scale runs out of numbers high or low

this is very true though, hard to run out of numbers when you can just make more up, although there is an ultimate limit in either direction, due to what temperature actually measures. That’s a physics thing though.

Is Fahrenheit intuitive? No

no, and neither is any other numbering system, it’s all arbitrary we already determined this.

proven by the fact that it can’t be used without prior understanding, as shown in my example.

as you try and apply celsius logic to the fahrenheit system in order to understand fahrenheit, incorrectly… While still ignoring my prime example here.

damn, what a fucking weird place down there hey?

At least that’s where they all go to violate OSHA rules, and make us more money. I’ll take what i can.

the celsius scale literally covers 55% of the range of the fahrenheit scale. I’d say “about half” is perfectly reasonable.

granted, it skews since you’re starting on the low end. The figure is more like 122f right in the middle, which is, not great, but i wasn’t going to calculate the half boiling point as i’ve literally never seen it be relevant anywhere lol.

No and that’s not what I claimed. What I’m saying is that if you tell someone accustomed to Celcius “it’s 42F° outside, oh by the way fahrenheit goes from 0=really cold to 100=really hot”, they have no idea about the actual weather.

obviously, but nobody was saying that, so i’m not sure why it’s relevant.

This is like explaining what a door is to someone, only for them to remove the door and go “well now what’s it supposed to do?”

“Really cold” and “really hot” are completely subjective. They depend on the climate you’re used to and come down to personal preference even.

not strictly? 0f is cold enough to require wearing additional layers if you don’t want to freeze and die after a long enough period of time. 100f, while more livable, is still rather hot. Hot enough that you can’t really do hard labor in that weather. Even people who live in climates that are really hot know this, and there’s a reason they often wear really specific clothing, or end up having darker skin. Although that’s evolutionary advantage at that point.

Unless you took someone living in finland, and someone living in australia. Although deserts aren’t really a fair comparison here either. They can get quite cold as well. They’re obviously going to have a bit of a different reaction, but i doubt it’s going to be significant enough to break the scale. It’s probably going to shift one way or the other a little bit, but that’s to be expected.

Percentages of subjective temperature tell me nothing. 20F° would basically have to be 20% warmer than “really cold”, right? Intuitively I would have guessed somewhere around 7°C (nice autumn morning), turns out 20F° is still way below the freezing point. The idea of 0F° and 100F° does not, in fact, help me interpret these values “with no prior understanding”.

again, you’re applying celsius logic to a fahrenheit problem, and then being surprised when it doesn’t work. You don’t know what 0f is, not because fahrenheit is stupid and bad, but because you don’t use it. So you’re trying to estimate into a system you don’t know, and then you’re complaining about my generalization when it’s your translation that doesn’t work. It’s clearly evident because you even say “20f is way below freezing” which is not at all true here in the fahrenheit lands. 20f is just below freezing here. well below freezing happens when you crack around 10-15f. Way below freezing is quite literally, about 0f.

The idea of 0F° and 100F° does not, in fact, help me interpret these values “with no prior understanding”.

no it doesn’t and thats because you have an anti thetical world view that you’re trying to apply to it. This breaks the application of the heuristic very evidently.

It’s simply not an intuitive frame of reference - except if you have at one point learned what the numbers mean.

sure, but my point is still that the 0f-100f is a broadly applicable heuristic that should roughly hold true. i believe if you convert these numbers into celsius, which is how you would correctly apply this heuristic, you would see something roughly equivalent to -20c and 40c, which to me seems to line up with how celsius peeps seem to experience temperature.

i know that part, that ones a classic, i think there are a lot more tankies or “pipelined” tankies than we think on the left, but i also don’t know shit so that’s just conjecture lol.

People from texas are really goofy though. Something about that state. It’s the florida of the inland states. Even though it’s technically not inland.

Only if you asked people accustomed to Fahrenheit. People who aren’t used to it cannot use it without prior understanding at all. To think otherwise just proves your confirmation bias again.

ok, so you genuinely think, that people who use celsius cannot experience the sensation of “hot” and “cold” without a number referencing the temperature directly in front of them? Specifically that of the celsius system?

I understand the point you’re trying to make, but it’s irrelevant and doesn’t matter. If you were to put someone into a room at either 0 or 100 degrees fahrenheit (without telling them the temperature of the room), from a climate relatively similar to the US, they would either say “it’s really cold” or “it’s really hot” even if they’re not directly from a similar climate, it would still be relatively inline with these expectations.

this is what we mean when we say “really hot” and “really cold” the human body has an innate response to the temperatures that it experiences. Classifying it accurately is hard. But in this case it doesn’t need to be, it’s a heuristic.

Then what should “intuitive” even mean if not “intuitive to use”? Because it certainly isn’t that.

think of a hammer, an intuitive feature of a hammer is pretty obvious, there is only one realistic way to use it. You can’t grab it by the hand and do much with it. The head itself is shaped and specifically designed for a certain type of use case, and the handle is pretty clearly built for holding onto.

going further, an intuitive feature of a rock is the ability to move/throw it. There are certain thing that are so fundamental to the human experience, there isn’t much in the way of conceptualization there.

intuition is simply the ability to naturally reason without external influence. For example, being able to place your foot where it needs to be so you don’t fall down a cliff. And intuitive system would be one that is innately familiar to the user, which obviously nothing is. But systems can have intuitive features or design elements however.

i feel like a tankie would just refer to joe as genocide joe, but maybe i’m too internet pilled?

the only reasonable answer, is literally fascism and a deluded right wing in america.

See my previous comment on another thread for additional context if you please.

“a 0-100 scale of how hot it is outside” and required “no prior understanding to use it as such”.

and this is generally the case. I’m sure if you were to sample the opinion of people randomly, this is roughly what you would get back. I may have said that it was an intuitive feature of fahrenheit, and it is, and so is the 0-100 scale of water freezing/boiling in celsius, but that’s irrelevant aside from the fact that it’s intuitive, and that point of contextual relevance you might as well mention that plants are green, and that the sky is blue.

Since then you seem to be arguing against a straw man.

possibly, but i’m mostly complaining about the collective response here, not the particular responses in this thread in particular. Which is also quite long so i don’t even really recall what has been said here to be specifically accurate.

this all started because of the claim that Fahrenheit is better for “human” temperatures.

so technically, it was originally a shitpost about how fahrenheit temperatures can go above 100, which is clearly better.

beyond that, a lot of people just proposed that fahrenheit is nice because “the 0-100 metric is kind of nice and lines up conveniently” which is perfectly accurate, as evidenced by people existing and using it, there’s not exactly a psyop for making people think fahrenheit is better lol.

literally the primary distinction here, is that celsius users think celsius is better because “water freezes at 0, and boils at 100” and fahrenheit users have merely proposed that “fahrenheit lines up fairly nicely with the human experience such that 0f is cold and 100f is hot”

and then celsius users have pretty much gone ape shit over these statements.

like to be clear, both of these arguments are literally the same.

meanwhile, the rest of the world can’t understand these numbers at all because they are not used to them, and use Celsius for human temperatures every day.

this is like being an english only speaker, and then discovering that the french language genders tables. And then becoming entirely irate over the fact that this language that you don’t know, and can’t speak genders tables.

You see my problem here right? Like it’s funny as a shitpost, but celsius users are grabbing a ratchet, realizing they don’t know how to use them, accidentally clobbering themselves over the head with it, and then being really confused and mad when people think that this is a pretty silly thing to do.

like it’s great that you guys don’t know fahrenheit because the rest of the world uses celsius. That’s great for you, who asked though? You can do the same things with race and gender as well. “white people are more advanced, surely we must be smarter right?”

like with all due respect, to you and everybody else who uses celsius, this is stupid. I don’t know if you guys think that fahrenheit people don’t know that celsius has a better boiling point of water, we know all of this shit. And we can even convert back into celsius, more often than not, because we have to interact with you guys, more frequently. Because statistically, there are more of you. Like the sheer amount of people in this thread that were just pretentious for no reason, is mindbogglingly astounding.

Like unironically, having seen this thread twice, once on reddit. I legitimately hold less of an opinion of Europeans now. Like from my perspective, these people are just whining and complaining about the most asinine of things, “oh no 96f, that’s not a nice number” yeah, it’s a conversion bro. What did you expect? And then when i mention that these are unreasonable opinions, as they are. Obviously. (so would any countering opinions, naturally) they get really confused or just say really stupid things? I’ve had people unironically tell me that there are different climates, like america doesn’t have any of those. I’ve had someone compare 0f to 100f, in the same exact situation. Literally just going outside naked. Why? Who goes outside naked when it’s cold?

You could tell me that this is a once yearly european psyop to make americans think that europeans are stupid, and i would believe you.

like i’m genuinely so confused, because i can’t tell if this is just some incredibly elaborate troll, or if celsius users genuinely can’t think outside of a box.

hey man, i didn’t make the claim. i’m just came here to complain about celsius users not thinking about things. If you can find an example of me saying fahrenheit is more intuitive, i’ll have to eat my words.

that’s globalism for ya

yeah, that was my post.

“Fahrenheit isn’t more intuitive” doesn’t not mean “Celcius is more intuitive”. You’re mistaken if you think that’s what’s being argued here.

i mean, fundamentally that’s what that statement would have to mean, unless you’re referring to a rock being more intuitive or something.

Why would you mention that fahrenheit isn’t as intuitive as celsius, if celsius wasn’t objectively more intuitive? Also why did you use a triple negative?

Neither one is intuitive. Intuition isn’t a useful metric here anyway. After all we could ask: Which one is more intuitive - kilometers or miles? Kilograms or pounds? Do we have to change how me measure time (base 12) to a base 10 as well, would that be more intuitive?

ultimately yeah, neither system is more intuitive than the other. Celsius has a nice use case in science and research, but that’s about it. fahrenheit isn’t really used anywhere outside of weather, and cooking, where it also doesn’t really matter, and no cooking is not “water based chemistry” as someone tried to propose.

also technically time isn’t really in base 12. one year is 12 months, is 31-30 days, is 24 hours, is 60 minutes, is 60 seconds, is then broken into tenths, hundreths, and thousandths of a second from there, etc… It’s not quite one specific system, just a hodgepodge of multiple different structures.

Fahrenheit simply has no advantage over Celcius. And it doesn’t have to. Some people are used to it, so keep using it by all means. Don’t argue that it’s superior and we’re all good.

exactly! I’m not arguing that fahrenheit is better, i’m just trying to get europeans to think it isn’t the single most useless system in the world because they spent 12 seconds thinking about things and got confused when they didn’t spend and more time on it.

I think a lot of people in this thread are just being objectively stupid, and not quite realizing it, and thus saying silly things that don’t make any sense. Europeans seem to do this a lot whenever the US customary unit system comes up in discussion, and i don’t understand why.

why it matters is because the scale i use every day constantly gets “verified” by passing the zero marker and showing that things outside freeze. that makes it a good reference point that builds its own intuition.

any number is equally as good for an arbitrary reference point. And it can arguably be even more confusing, let’s take a page out of CS acronyms and short hands. GB and GiB (often shortened improperly) GB being 1000, GiB being 1024. Now i feel like i don’t have to explain why this is a bad thing.

1024 is an odd unit, but it’s sequential powers of 2, so it’s trivial to think about. 1000 is a nice unit, but it doesn’t map nicely into storage, or binary strings.

like to me the difference between 0-100 and 32-212 is basically nothing. Sure it’s a weird number, but they’re both numbers so. Really the only proper utility it has is the SI unit meta, and the fact that it maps into kelvin. Outside of that i don’t see why 0 or 32 as the freezing point are any different. It might be more visually pleasing, but like, fahrenheit also takes that one as well, given that the 0f-100f thing is accurate. I feel like they’re just equivalent.

i just don’t see why it matters, like at all. People do much more complicated things on a daily basis. People remember random strings of numbers as passcodes, people remember random strings of letters as for passwords.

idk i feel like it’s just weird to sit here on the internet and complain about how you need water to freeze at 0 degrees, and how it must boil at 100 degrees. When neither of those are like, relevant? For most day to day activities at least. Maybe in the winter, but again, 32.

would it be nicer if fahrenheit suddenly had water freeze at 0f tomorrow, as well as boil at 200f? Probably, but like, i wouldn’t care. It just seems like such an odd thing to care about to me.

which is why most people here in favor of Celcius argue that Fahrenheit isn’t, in fact, more intuitive and therefore more suited to describe the weather.

hmm.